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Proportion of a compartment's mass which originates from another compartment



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Solution of an ODE (Show equation)Do solutions of $dotx = fracxt^2 + t$ exist satisfying $x(0) =0$Setting up a differential equation to find time constant for RC-circuitMathematical Physics: Differential equation of a raindropParameter estimation - Holt's Two parameter Linear Exponential SmoothingVoltage Current and Voltage Charge Relationship for a Capacitoranalytic solution of a zombie modelHow to solve this damped integro-differential equation?On the periodicity of an non-linear ODEFind the positively invariant annulus










3












$begingroup$


System & Objective



I have the following open system (mass flow) with 2 compartments $A$ and $B$ and constant flow rates $a,b,alpha,beta,gamma,delta$.



system




I would like an expression for "the proportion of $A(t)$ at time $t$ which originated from $B(t)$", denoted $A_B(t)$.




We can assume originally no mass in $A$ came from $B$ -- i.e. $A_B(t=0) = 0$.



Approach



I assume the proportion could be expressed as a fraction,
$$ A_B(t) = fracN(t)D(t) $$
where the denominator is simply the current mass in $A$, $D(t) = A(t)$; and the numerator $N(t)$ is the absolute mass currently in $A$ which originated from $B$.



I'm struggling to derive an expression for $N(t)$.



I defined the cumulative mass which enters $A$ from $B$ as
$$ T_A_B(t) = int_0^t b B(tau) dtau $$
but we also need an expression for the cumulative mass which exits $A$ after entering from $B$, denoted $E_A_B(t)$. I would then define $N(t) = T_A_B(t) - E_A_B(t)$.



I had three approaches to defining $E_A_B(t)$... is any correct?



Cumulative Exit Attempt 1:



beginequation
beginaligned
E_A_B(t) &= int_0^t (alpha + a) T_A_B(tau) dtau \
&= int_0^t (alpha + a) left(int_0^tau b B(s) ds right) dtau
endaligned
endequation



But this double integral seems wrong and would blow up for large $t$.



Cumulative Exit Attempt 2:



beginequation
E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) b B(tau) dtau
endequation



But this doesn't seem right either, as the exit only depends on the current value of $B(t)$.



Cumulative Exit Attempt 3:



beginequation
E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) A(tau) A_B(tau) dtau
endequation



But this would result in recursive definition of $A_B(t)$, and I'm not sure how I could rearrange to isolate $A_B(t)$ from the the LHS and the RHS integral.




Overall, is this a reasonable approach? Any ideas how to derive either $E_A_B(t)$, or $A_B(t)$ by another approach altogether? I feel like I should be using Laplace.



Thanks,










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    3












    $begingroup$


    System & Objective



    I have the following open system (mass flow) with 2 compartments $A$ and $B$ and constant flow rates $a,b,alpha,beta,gamma,delta$.



    system




    I would like an expression for "the proportion of $A(t)$ at time $t$ which originated from $B(t)$", denoted $A_B(t)$.




    We can assume originally no mass in $A$ came from $B$ -- i.e. $A_B(t=0) = 0$.



    Approach



    I assume the proportion could be expressed as a fraction,
    $$ A_B(t) = fracN(t)D(t) $$
    where the denominator is simply the current mass in $A$, $D(t) = A(t)$; and the numerator $N(t)$ is the absolute mass currently in $A$ which originated from $B$.



    I'm struggling to derive an expression for $N(t)$.



    I defined the cumulative mass which enters $A$ from $B$ as
    $$ T_A_B(t) = int_0^t b B(tau) dtau $$
    but we also need an expression for the cumulative mass which exits $A$ after entering from $B$, denoted $E_A_B(t)$. I would then define $N(t) = T_A_B(t) - E_A_B(t)$.



    I had three approaches to defining $E_A_B(t)$... is any correct?



    Cumulative Exit Attempt 1:



    beginequation
    beginaligned
    E_A_B(t) &= int_0^t (alpha + a) T_A_B(tau) dtau \
    &= int_0^t (alpha + a) left(int_0^tau b B(s) ds right) dtau
    endaligned
    endequation



    But this double integral seems wrong and would blow up for large $t$.



    Cumulative Exit Attempt 2:



    beginequation
    E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) b B(tau) dtau
    endequation



    But this doesn't seem right either, as the exit only depends on the current value of $B(t)$.



    Cumulative Exit Attempt 3:



    beginequation
    E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) A(tau) A_B(tau) dtau
    endequation



    But this would result in recursive definition of $A_B(t)$, and I'm not sure how I could rearrange to isolate $A_B(t)$ from the the LHS and the RHS integral.




    Overall, is this a reasonable approach? Any ideas how to derive either $E_A_B(t)$, or $A_B(t)$ by another approach altogether? I feel like I should be using Laplace.



    Thanks,










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      3












      3








      3


      0



      $begingroup$


      System & Objective



      I have the following open system (mass flow) with 2 compartments $A$ and $B$ and constant flow rates $a,b,alpha,beta,gamma,delta$.



      system




      I would like an expression for "the proportion of $A(t)$ at time $t$ which originated from $B(t)$", denoted $A_B(t)$.




      We can assume originally no mass in $A$ came from $B$ -- i.e. $A_B(t=0) = 0$.



      Approach



      I assume the proportion could be expressed as a fraction,
      $$ A_B(t) = fracN(t)D(t) $$
      where the denominator is simply the current mass in $A$, $D(t) = A(t)$; and the numerator $N(t)$ is the absolute mass currently in $A$ which originated from $B$.



      I'm struggling to derive an expression for $N(t)$.



      I defined the cumulative mass which enters $A$ from $B$ as
      $$ T_A_B(t) = int_0^t b B(tau) dtau $$
      but we also need an expression for the cumulative mass which exits $A$ after entering from $B$, denoted $E_A_B(t)$. I would then define $N(t) = T_A_B(t) - E_A_B(t)$.



      I had three approaches to defining $E_A_B(t)$... is any correct?



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 1:



      beginequation
      beginaligned
      E_A_B(t) &= int_0^t (alpha + a) T_A_B(tau) dtau \
      &= int_0^t (alpha + a) left(int_0^tau b B(s) ds right) dtau
      endaligned
      endequation



      But this double integral seems wrong and would blow up for large $t$.



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 2:



      beginequation
      E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) b B(tau) dtau
      endequation



      But this doesn't seem right either, as the exit only depends on the current value of $B(t)$.



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 3:



      beginequation
      E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) A(tau) A_B(tau) dtau
      endequation



      But this would result in recursive definition of $A_B(t)$, and I'm not sure how I could rearrange to isolate $A_B(t)$ from the the LHS and the RHS integral.




      Overall, is this a reasonable approach? Any ideas how to derive either $E_A_B(t)$, or $A_B(t)$ by another approach altogether? I feel like I should be using Laplace.



      Thanks,










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      System & Objective



      I have the following open system (mass flow) with 2 compartments $A$ and $B$ and constant flow rates $a,b,alpha,beta,gamma,delta$.



      system




      I would like an expression for "the proportion of $A(t)$ at time $t$ which originated from $B(t)$", denoted $A_B(t)$.




      We can assume originally no mass in $A$ came from $B$ -- i.e. $A_B(t=0) = 0$.



      Approach



      I assume the proportion could be expressed as a fraction,
      $$ A_B(t) = fracN(t)D(t) $$
      where the denominator is simply the current mass in $A$, $D(t) = A(t)$; and the numerator $N(t)$ is the absolute mass currently in $A$ which originated from $B$.



      I'm struggling to derive an expression for $N(t)$.



      I defined the cumulative mass which enters $A$ from $B$ as
      $$ T_A_B(t) = int_0^t b B(tau) dtau $$
      but we also need an expression for the cumulative mass which exits $A$ after entering from $B$, denoted $E_A_B(t)$. I would then define $N(t) = T_A_B(t) - E_A_B(t)$.



      I had three approaches to defining $E_A_B(t)$... is any correct?



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 1:



      beginequation
      beginaligned
      E_A_B(t) &= int_0^t (alpha + a) T_A_B(tau) dtau \
      &= int_0^t (alpha + a) left(int_0^tau b B(s) ds right) dtau
      endaligned
      endequation



      But this double integral seems wrong and would blow up for large $t$.



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 2:



      beginequation
      E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) b B(tau) dtau
      endequation



      But this doesn't seem right either, as the exit only depends on the current value of $B(t)$.



      Cumulative Exit Attempt 3:



      beginequation
      E_A_B(t) = int_0^t (alpha + a) A(tau) A_B(tau) dtau
      endequation



      But this would result in recursive definition of $A_B(t)$, and I'm not sure how I could rearrange to isolate $A_B(t)$ from the the LHS and the RHS integral.




      Overall, is this a reasonable approach? Any ideas how to derive either $E_A_B(t)$, or $A_B(t)$ by another approach altogether? I feel like I should be using Laplace.



      Thanks,







      ordinary-differential-equations dynamical-systems






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Apr 8 at 20:40









      Jesse KnightJesse Knight

      1214




      1214




















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1












          $begingroup$

          I'm unsure if my answer does what you want, but the way I see it, we can write the total amount $N(t) = A_B(t) cdot A(t)$ as a differential equation:



          $$
          dotN(t) = b B(t) - (a + alpha) N(t)
          $$

          This corresponds to your case 3.



          We will also need the differential equation for $A(t)$:
          $$
          dotA(t) = b B(t) + gamma - (a + alpha) A(t)
          $$



          Hence, to have $A_B(t)$ we would need to compute the quotient between these two quantities:



          $$
          A_B(t) = fracN(t)A(t)
          $$



          Note that, in order for the system to be complete, you will also need the differential equation for $B(t)$
          $$
          dotB(t) = a A(t) + delta - (b + beta) B(t)
          $$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




















            0












            $begingroup$

            There are just a couple of remarks to the @Ertxiem's answer, which I believe is correct.



            1. We implicitely assume that any particle that enters the compartment $B$ immediately acquires the property to be of type $B$. Otherwise, we would need to trace particles from $A$ and $B$ separately and sort out the situations when a particle $x$ leaves $A$, enters $B$ and then reenters $A$ and so on...

            2. You can simplify the computations if you subtract the DE for $N$ from the DE for $A$ to get
              $$fracddt(A-N)=gamma-(a+alpha)(A-N),$$
              with the initial condition $A(0)-A_B(0)$. This DE can be solved independently of others.





            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













              Your Answer








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              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              1












              $begingroup$

              I'm unsure if my answer does what you want, but the way I see it, we can write the total amount $N(t) = A_B(t) cdot A(t)$ as a differential equation:



              $$
              dotN(t) = b B(t) - (a + alpha) N(t)
              $$

              This corresponds to your case 3.



              We will also need the differential equation for $A(t)$:
              $$
              dotA(t) = b B(t) + gamma - (a + alpha) A(t)
              $$



              Hence, to have $A_B(t)$ we would need to compute the quotient between these two quantities:



              $$
              A_B(t) = fracN(t)A(t)
              $$



              Note that, in order for the system to be complete, you will also need the differential equation for $B(t)$
              $$
              dotB(t) = a A(t) + delta - (b + beta) B(t)
              $$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                1












                $begingroup$

                I'm unsure if my answer does what you want, but the way I see it, we can write the total amount $N(t) = A_B(t) cdot A(t)$ as a differential equation:



                $$
                dotN(t) = b B(t) - (a + alpha) N(t)
                $$

                This corresponds to your case 3.



                We will also need the differential equation for $A(t)$:
                $$
                dotA(t) = b B(t) + gamma - (a + alpha) A(t)
                $$



                Hence, to have $A_B(t)$ we would need to compute the quotient between these two quantities:



                $$
                A_B(t) = fracN(t)A(t)
                $$



                Note that, in order for the system to be complete, you will also need the differential equation for $B(t)$
                $$
                dotB(t) = a A(t) + delta - (b + beta) B(t)
                $$






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  I'm unsure if my answer does what you want, but the way I see it, we can write the total amount $N(t) = A_B(t) cdot A(t)$ as a differential equation:



                  $$
                  dotN(t) = b B(t) - (a + alpha) N(t)
                  $$

                  This corresponds to your case 3.



                  We will also need the differential equation for $A(t)$:
                  $$
                  dotA(t) = b B(t) + gamma - (a + alpha) A(t)
                  $$



                  Hence, to have $A_B(t)$ we would need to compute the quotient between these two quantities:



                  $$
                  A_B(t) = fracN(t)A(t)
                  $$



                  Note that, in order for the system to be complete, you will also need the differential equation for $B(t)$
                  $$
                  dotB(t) = a A(t) + delta - (b + beta) B(t)
                  $$






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  I'm unsure if my answer does what you want, but the way I see it, we can write the total amount $N(t) = A_B(t) cdot A(t)$ as a differential equation:



                  $$
                  dotN(t) = b B(t) - (a + alpha) N(t)
                  $$

                  This corresponds to your case 3.



                  We will also need the differential equation for $A(t)$:
                  $$
                  dotA(t) = b B(t) + gamma - (a + alpha) A(t)
                  $$



                  Hence, to have $A_B(t)$ we would need to compute the quotient between these two quantities:



                  $$
                  A_B(t) = fracN(t)A(t)
                  $$



                  Note that, in order for the system to be complete, you will also need the differential equation for $B(t)$
                  $$
                  dotB(t) = a A(t) + delta - (b + beta) B(t)
                  $$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Apr 9 at 17:11









                  ErtxiemErtxiem

                  757212




                  757212





















                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      There are just a couple of remarks to the @Ertxiem's answer, which I believe is correct.



                      1. We implicitely assume that any particle that enters the compartment $B$ immediately acquires the property to be of type $B$. Otherwise, we would need to trace particles from $A$ and $B$ separately and sort out the situations when a particle $x$ leaves $A$, enters $B$ and then reenters $A$ and so on...

                      2. You can simplify the computations if you subtract the DE for $N$ from the DE for $A$ to get
                        $$fracddt(A-N)=gamma-(a+alpha)(A-N),$$
                        with the initial condition $A(0)-A_B(0)$. This DE can be solved independently of others.





                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$

















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        There are just a couple of remarks to the @Ertxiem's answer, which I believe is correct.



                        1. We implicitely assume that any particle that enters the compartment $B$ immediately acquires the property to be of type $B$. Otherwise, we would need to trace particles from $A$ and $B$ separately and sort out the situations when a particle $x$ leaves $A$, enters $B$ and then reenters $A$ and so on...

                        2. You can simplify the computations if you subtract the DE for $N$ from the DE for $A$ to get
                          $$fracddt(A-N)=gamma-(a+alpha)(A-N),$$
                          with the initial condition $A(0)-A_B(0)$. This DE can be solved independently of others.





                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          There are just a couple of remarks to the @Ertxiem's answer, which I believe is correct.



                          1. We implicitely assume that any particle that enters the compartment $B$ immediately acquires the property to be of type $B$. Otherwise, we would need to trace particles from $A$ and $B$ separately and sort out the situations when a particle $x$ leaves $A$, enters $B$ and then reenters $A$ and so on...

                          2. You can simplify the computations if you subtract the DE for $N$ from the DE for $A$ to get
                            $$fracddt(A-N)=gamma-(a+alpha)(A-N),$$
                            with the initial condition $A(0)-A_B(0)$. This DE can be solved independently of others.





                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          There are just a couple of remarks to the @Ertxiem's answer, which I believe is correct.



                          1. We implicitely assume that any particle that enters the compartment $B$ immediately acquires the property to be of type $B$. Otherwise, we would need to trace particles from $A$ and $B$ separately and sort out the situations when a particle $x$ leaves $A$, enters $B$ and then reenters $A$ and so on...

                          2. You can simplify the computations if you subtract the DE for $N$ from the DE for $A$ to get
                            $$fracddt(A-N)=gamma-(a+alpha)(A-N),$$
                            with the initial condition $A(0)-A_B(0)$. This DE can be solved independently of others.






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 2 days ago









                          DmitryDmitry

                          721618




                          721618



























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