Green's function for $2^textnd$ order PDE The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)PDE: Greens-Function to 2D-Diffusion-Equation with time-dependent coefficient?Trouble with an application of Green's representation formulaGreen's function of elliptic equations.Vector-valued Green's Function: Definition and Fourier transformGreen kernel for Dirichlet problem of Stokes flow PDE's $nabla p = Deltavecv, nablacdotvecv=0$ on a sphereIntegral equation for Green's functionD'Alembertian Green's function from Laplacian Green's function by Wick rotationGreensfunction symmetric with respect to argumentsSolding pdf using Green's function.Continuity in derivatives of the Green's function in RHB

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Green's function for $2^textnd$ order PDE



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)PDE: Greens-Function to 2D-Diffusion-Equation with time-dependent coefficient?Trouble with an application of Green's representation formulaGreen's function of elliptic equations.Vector-valued Green's Function: Definition and Fourier transformGreen kernel for Dirichlet problem of Stokes flow PDE's $nabla p = Deltavecv, nablacdotvecv=0$ on a sphereIntegral equation for Green's functionD'Alembertian Green's function from Laplacian Green's function by Wick rotationGreensfunction symmetric with respect to argumentsSolding pdf using Green's function.Continuity in derivatives of the Green's function in RHB










1












$begingroup$


Has anyone an idea how to find the Green's function of the operator
$$
widehatmathcalO=-frac1R partial_z^2 - partial_R frac1R partial_R?
$$



UPDATE1: For my own record (and anyone else who is interested) here is what one may call a solution or the way how I found it. I was first looking for solutions of the homogenous equation using a separation ansatz $f_R(R)f_z(z)$. The general solution then found this way is
$$
G(R,z) = int_0^infty c_k , R , J_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

because it should be invariant as $zrightarrow -z$.
I'm not quite sure why one has to discard the second solution $Y_1$ as $R Y_1$ is finite at the origin. However it does not seem to yield the correct result as the integral over the surface after using Gauss theorem seems to give a zero result as the integrand is odd.



In analogy to the cylindrical laplacian whose Greens function $Gsim frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$ can be found as a linear combination $int_0^infty J_0left(kRright) e^-k , rm dk$ I expected to get the solution by plugging in $c_k=c$ where c is a dimensionless constant. Note that $widehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-3$ and therefore $$widehatcal O G = fracdelta(R)delta(varphi)delta(z)R$$ should be dimensionless when integrated over the entire volume. This implies that $G$ should be dimensionless too. Assuming $c_k$ does not depend on any other hidden parameters and $k$ has dimension $L^-1$ the only viable combination is $c_k=c$ being a dimensionless constant.



The solution of the integral then is $$G(R,z) = cleft(1-fracsqrtR^2+z^2right)$$. However as a Greens function should vanish at $infty$ this result can not be quite right, because it does vanish as $|z| rightarrow infty$, but not as $R rightarrow infty$. Discarding the first constant term (which is irrelevant for the PDE) gives the opposite discrepancy: It vanishes as $R rightarrow infty$, but not as $|z| rightarrow infty$. This combined with the fact, that $$int_V underbracewidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ depends on the precise integration region $(sim ln (zR))$ led me to conclusion that probably this operator does not have a Greens function. Does anyone know if there is an existence theorem to any arbitrary Operator? Has it something to do with a PDE of second order has to have dimension $L^-2$ ?? See below:



Since in my case I want to solve the equation $widehatcal OPsi(R,z) = omega_varphi(R,z)$ this is equivalent to solving $Rwidehatcal OPsi(R,z) = R,omega_varphi(R,z)$ and therefore I'm looking for a Greensfunction $G$ to the operator $Rwidehatcal O$ which has dimension $L^-2$ same as for the laplacian. Thus the Greensfunction $G(R,z)$ as the $frac1r$ solution to the laplacian has to have dimension $L^-1$. Following the argument similar to above I conclude $c_k=ck$ again with a dimensionless constant $c$ and therefore $$G(R,z)=fracc,R^2left(R^2+z^2right)^frac32$$. This function now indeed has all the properties it needs to have and in particular $$int_V underbraceRwidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ is independent on the integration region!



By choosing the tube of radius $R>0$ from $z=-infty..infty$ I readily obtain $$int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2pi int_-infty^infty R F_R(R,z) , rm dz = 8pi c stackrel!= 1$$ fixing $c$.



$F_R$ is determined by the equation $$frac1R partial_R R F_R = -Rpartial_R frac1R partial_R G = partial_z^2 G$$ i.e.
$$
RF_R(R,z) - R_0F_R(R_0,z) = int_R_0^R R' , partial_z^2 G(R',z) , rm dR' \
Longrightarrow qquad F_R(R,z) = frac3cR^3left(R^2 + z^2right)^frac52
$$
.



UPDATE2: In continuing I noticed that above function is not really good when it comes to finding an inhomogenous solution since that would need to be of the form
$$
Psi(R,z) = int_V rm dV' , Gleft(R,z,R',z'right) , R'omega_varphileft(R',z'right)
$$

but $G(R-R',z-z')$ from above is not a solution to the Operator $Rwidehatcal O$. :-(



$rm dV'$ is an appropriate Volume element (not nececarily the cylinder or??)



In which cases can this function be found just by replacing $R rightarrow R- R'$ and $z rightarrow z-z'$ ???



So I'm basically starting all over again and this time I try to construct it as
$$
G(R,z,R',z') = int_0^infty c_k , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

The idea now is to choose $c_k$ such that the integral over the parameterspace $(R',z')$ with Gauss-Theorem yields a result independent on $(R,z)$. I'm not sure though (as hinted above) if I need to consider in fact a full cylindrical geometry such that
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = fracdelta(R-R') delta(z-z') delta(phi-phi')R
$$

with physical meaning or if any Greensfunction in an arbitrary parameterspace will suffice i.e. choosing the following equation
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = delta(R-R') delta(z-z')
$$

so that $G$ now is dimensionless ($Rwidehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-2$ as does the RHS). If I try to construct it using the latter equation, then since $G$ is dimensionless the most simple ansatz (with powers of $k$) must be $c_k=ck$ ($k$ has dimension $L^-1$) again with $c$ a dimensionless constant.
The integral is actually calculatable by the formula
$$
int_0^infty e^-kz , J_mu(kR) , J_mu(kR') , rm dk = frac1pi sqrtRR' , Q_mu-frac12 left( fracz^2 + R^2 + R'^22RR' right)
$$

The additional $k$ in the integrand is obtained by deriving with respect to $z$. However things are getting rather complicated so I will stay with the integral to calculate the flux through the surface.
In a 2d co-ordinate system I will take $R'$ as x-coordinate and $z'$ as y.
The only way I could solve the Flux through the surfaces was to choose the boundary as the line (from $R'=0..infty$) at $z'=z+epsilon$ and $z'=z-epsilon$ parallel to the R' axis, and the line from $z'=z-epsilon$ to $z'=z+epsilon$ at $R'=0$ and $R'=infty$ respectively. Thus we need
$$
F_z' = - partial_z' G = -int_0^infty c k begincases -k quad &z'>z \ k quad &z'<z endcases bigg} , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

and the flux through the area at $z'=zpmepsilon$ is
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = int_0^infty rm dR' , left( F_z+epsilon - F_z-epsilon right)
$$

The integral over $R'$ gives a factor of $frac2k^2$ and thus
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk stackrelz-z'= 2cleft(1-fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2 + R^2right)
$$



The integral over the surface in positive $R'-$direction (from $z'=z-epsilon..z+epsilon$) needs
$$ F_R' - F_R'_0 = -int_R'_0^R' R'' partial_R'' frac1R'' partial_R'' G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \ = int_R'_0^R' partial_z'^2 G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \
= int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , partial_z'^2 e^-k , rm dk int_R'_0^R' R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' $$

and thus for $R'=infty$ and $R_0'=0$
$$
int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_R'(R,z,R',z') , rm dz' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ partial_z' e^-k right]_z'=z-epsilon^z'=z+epsilon , rm dk int_0^infty R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ -2k , e^-kepsilon right] , rm dk , frac1k^2 \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-kepsilon , rm dk \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c left( 1 - fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2+R^2 right).$$



Conversely the opposite part in negative $R'$-direction at $R'=0$ gives
$$-int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz'$$
and therefore after adding up all the parts we have
$$
int_A vecF cdot rm dvecA = 0
$$

implying this specific $G(R,z,R',z')$ being no Greens-function?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    What does the -3 on the left mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 2 '18 at 15:18










  • $begingroup$
    It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
    $endgroup$
    – Dylan
    Jun 3 '18 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:13











  • $begingroup$
    When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:20










  • $begingroup$
    However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:40
















1












$begingroup$


Has anyone an idea how to find the Green's function of the operator
$$
widehatmathcalO=-frac1R partial_z^2 - partial_R frac1R partial_R?
$$



UPDATE1: For my own record (and anyone else who is interested) here is what one may call a solution or the way how I found it. I was first looking for solutions of the homogenous equation using a separation ansatz $f_R(R)f_z(z)$. The general solution then found this way is
$$
G(R,z) = int_0^infty c_k , R , J_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

because it should be invariant as $zrightarrow -z$.
I'm not quite sure why one has to discard the second solution $Y_1$ as $R Y_1$ is finite at the origin. However it does not seem to yield the correct result as the integral over the surface after using Gauss theorem seems to give a zero result as the integrand is odd.



In analogy to the cylindrical laplacian whose Greens function $Gsim frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$ can be found as a linear combination $int_0^infty J_0left(kRright) e^-k , rm dk$ I expected to get the solution by plugging in $c_k=c$ where c is a dimensionless constant. Note that $widehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-3$ and therefore $$widehatcal O G = fracdelta(R)delta(varphi)delta(z)R$$ should be dimensionless when integrated over the entire volume. This implies that $G$ should be dimensionless too. Assuming $c_k$ does not depend on any other hidden parameters and $k$ has dimension $L^-1$ the only viable combination is $c_k=c$ being a dimensionless constant.



The solution of the integral then is $$G(R,z) = cleft(1-fracsqrtR^2+z^2right)$$. However as a Greens function should vanish at $infty$ this result can not be quite right, because it does vanish as $|z| rightarrow infty$, but not as $R rightarrow infty$. Discarding the first constant term (which is irrelevant for the PDE) gives the opposite discrepancy: It vanishes as $R rightarrow infty$, but not as $|z| rightarrow infty$. This combined with the fact, that $$int_V underbracewidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ depends on the precise integration region $(sim ln (zR))$ led me to conclusion that probably this operator does not have a Greens function. Does anyone know if there is an existence theorem to any arbitrary Operator? Has it something to do with a PDE of second order has to have dimension $L^-2$ ?? See below:



Since in my case I want to solve the equation $widehatcal OPsi(R,z) = omega_varphi(R,z)$ this is equivalent to solving $Rwidehatcal OPsi(R,z) = R,omega_varphi(R,z)$ and therefore I'm looking for a Greensfunction $G$ to the operator $Rwidehatcal O$ which has dimension $L^-2$ same as for the laplacian. Thus the Greensfunction $G(R,z)$ as the $frac1r$ solution to the laplacian has to have dimension $L^-1$. Following the argument similar to above I conclude $c_k=ck$ again with a dimensionless constant $c$ and therefore $$G(R,z)=fracc,R^2left(R^2+z^2right)^frac32$$. This function now indeed has all the properties it needs to have and in particular $$int_V underbraceRwidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ is independent on the integration region!



By choosing the tube of radius $R>0$ from $z=-infty..infty$ I readily obtain $$int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2pi int_-infty^infty R F_R(R,z) , rm dz = 8pi c stackrel!= 1$$ fixing $c$.



$F_R$ is determined by the equation $$frac1R partial_R R F_R = -Rpartial_R frac1R partial_R G = partial_z^2 G$$ i.e.
$$
RF_R(R,z) - R_0F_R(R_0,z) = int_R_0^R R' , partial_z^2 G(R',z) , rm dR' \
Longrightarrow qquad F_R(R,z) = frac3cR^3left(R^2 + z^2right)^frac52
$$
.



UPDATE2: In continuing I noticed that above function is not really good when it comes to finding an inhomogenous solution since that would need to be of the form
$$
Psi(R,z) = int_V rm dV' , Gleft(R,z,R',z'right) , R'omega_varphileft(R',z'right)
$$

but $G(R-R',z-z')$ from above is not a solution to the Operator $Rwidehatcal O$. :-(



$rm dV'$ is an appropriate Volume element (not nececarily the cylinder or??)



In which cases can this function be found just by replacing $R rightarrow R- R'$ and $z rightarrow z-z'$ ???



So I'm basically starting all over again and this time I try to construct it as
$$
G(R,z,R',z') = int_0^infty c_k , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

The idea now is to choose $c_k$ such that the integral over the parameterspace $(R',z')$ with Gauss-Theorem yields a result independent on $(R,z)$. I'm not sure though (as hinted above) if I need to consider in fact a full cylindrical geometry such that
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = fracdelta(R-R') delta(z-z') delta(phi-phi')R
$$

with physical meaning or if any Greensfunction in an arbitrary parameterspace will suffice i.e. choosing the following equation
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = delta(R-R') delta(z-z')
$$

so that $G$ now is dimensionless ($Rwidehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-2$ as does the RHS). If I try to construct it using the latter equation, then since $G$ is dimensionless the most simple ansatz (with powers of $k$) must be $c_k=ck$ ($k$ has dimension $L^-1$) again with $c$ a dimensionless constant.
The integral is actually calculatable by the formula
$$
int_0^infty e^-kz , J_mu(kR) , J_mu(kR') , rm dk = frac1pi sqrtRR' , Q_mu-frac12 left( fracz^2 + R^2 + R'^22RR' right)
$$

The additional $k$ in the integrand is obtained by deriving with respect to $z$. However things are getting rather complicated so I will stay with the integral to calculate the flux through the surface.
In a 2d co-ordinate system I will take $R'$ as x-coordinate and $z'$ as y.
The only way I could solve the Flux through the surfaces was to choose the boundary as the line (from $R'=0..infty$) at $z'=z+epsilon$ and $z'=z-epsilon$ parallel to the R' axis, and the line from $z'=z-epsilon$ to $z'=z+epsilon$ at $R'=0$ and $R'=infty$ respectively. Thus we need
$$
F_z' = - partial_z' G = -int_0^infty c k begincases -k quad &z'>z \ k quad &z'<z endcases bigg} , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

and the flux through the area at $z'=zpmepsilon$ is
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = int_0^infty rm dR' , left( F_z+epsilon - F_z-epsilon right)
$$

The integral over $R'$ gives a factor of $frac2k^2$ and thus
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk stackrelz-z'= 2cleft(1-fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2 + R^2right)
$$



The integral over the surface in positive $R'-$direction (from $z'=z-epsilon..z+epsilon$) needs
$$ F_R' - F_R'_0 = -int_R'_0^R' R'' partial_R'' frac1R'' partial_R'' G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \ = int_R'_0^R' partial_z'^2 G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \
= int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , partial_z'^2 e^-k , rm dk int_R'_0^R' R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' $$

and thus for $R'=infty$ and $R_0'=0$
$$
int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_R'(R,z,R',z') , rm dz' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ partial_z' e^-k right]_z'=z-epsilon^z'=z+epsilon , rm dk int_0^infty R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ -2k , e^-kepsilon right] , rm dk , frac1k^2 \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-kepsilon , rm dk \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c left( 1 - fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2+R^2 right).$$



Conversely the opposite part in negative $R'$-direction at $R'=0$ gives
$$-int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz'$$
and therefore after adding up all the parts we have
$$
int_A vecF cdot rm dvecA = 0
$$

implying this specific $G(R,z,R',z')$ being no Greens-function?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    What does the -3 on the left mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 2 '18 at 15:18










  • $begingroup$
    It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
    $endgroup$
    – Dylan
    Jun 3 '18 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:13











  • $begingroup$
    When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:20










  • $begingroup$
    However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:40














1












1








1





$begingroup$


Has anyone an idea how to find the Green's function of the operator
$$
widehatmathcalO=-frac1R partial_z^2 - partial_R frac1R partial_R?
$$



UPDATE1: For my own record (and anyone else who is interested) here is what one may call a solution or the way how I found it. I was first looking for solutions of the homogenous equation using a separation ansatz $f_R(R)f_z(z)$. The general solution then found this way is
$$
G(R,z) = int_0^infty c_k , R , J_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

because it should be invariant as $zrightarrow -z$.
I'm not quite sure why one has to discard the second solution $Y_1$ as $R Y_1$ is finite at the origin. However it does not seem to yield the correct result as the integral over the surface after using Gauss theorem seems to give a zero result as the integrand is odd.



In analogy to the cylindrical laplacian whose Greens function $Gsim frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$ can be found as a linear combination $int_0^infty J_0left(kRright) e^-k , rm dk$ I expected to get the solution by plugging in $c_k=c$ where c is a dimensionless constant. Note that $widehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-3$ and therefore $$widehatcal O G = fracdelta(R)delta(varphi)delta(z)R$$ should be dimensionless when integrated over the entire volume. This implies that $G$ should be dimensionless too. Assuming $c_k$ does not depend on any other hidden parameters and $k$ has dimension $L^-1$ the only viable combination is $c_k=c$ being a dimensionless constant.



The solution of the integral then is $$G(R,z) = cleft(1-fracsqrtR^2+z^2right)$$. However as a Greens function should vanish at $infty$ this result can not be quite right, because it does vanish as $|z| rightarrow infty$, but not as $R rightarrow infty$. Discarding the first constant term (which is irrelevant for the PDE) gives the opposite discrepancy: It vanishes as $R rightarrow infty$, but not as $|z| rightarrow infty$. This combined with the fact, that $$int_V underbracewidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ depends on the precise integration region $(sim ln (zR))$ led me to conclusion that probably this operator does not have a Greens function. Does anyone know if there is an existence theorem to any arbitrary Operator? Has it something to do with a PDE of second order has to have dimension $L^-2$ ?? See below:



Since in my case I want to solve the equation $widehatcal OPsi(R,z) = omega_varphi(R,z)$ this is equivalent to solving $Rwidehatcal OPsi(R,z) = R,omega_varphi(R,z)$ and therefore I'm looking for a Greensfunction $G$ to the operator $Rwidehatcal O$ which has dimension $L^-2$ same as for the laplacian. Thus the Greensfunction $G(R,z)$ as the $frac1r$ solution to the laplacian has to have dimension $L^-1$. Following the argument similar to above I conclude $c_k=ck$ again with a dimensionless constant $c$ and therefore $$G(R,z)=fracc,R^2left(R^2+z^2right)^frac32$$. This function now indeed has all the properties it needs to have and in particular $$int_V underbraceRwidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ is independent on the integration region!



By choosing the tube of radius $R>0$ from $z=-infty..infty$ I readily obtain $$int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2pi int_-infty^infty R F_R(R,z) , rm dz = 8pi c stackrel!= 1$$ fixing $c$.



$F_R$ is determined by the equation $$frac1R partial_R R F_R = -Rpartial_R frac1R partial_R G = partial_z^2 G$$ i.e.
$$
RF_R(R,z) - R_0F_R(R_0,z) = int_R_0^R R' , partial_z^2 G(R',z) , rm dR' \
Longrightarrow qquad F_R(R,z) = frac3cR^3left(R^2 + z^2right)^frac52
$$
.



UPDATE2: In continuing I noticed that above function is not really good when it comes to finding an inhomogenous solution since that would need to be of the form
$$
Psi(R,z) = int_V rm dV' , Gleft(R,z,R',z'right) , R'omega_varphileft(R',z'right)
$$

but $G(R-R',z-z')$ from above is not a solution to the Operator $Rwidehatcal O$. :-(



$rm dV'$ is an appropriate Volume element (not nececarily the cylinder or??)



In which cases can this function be found just by replacing $R rightarrow R- R'$ and $z rightarrow z-z'$ ???



So I'm basically starting all over again and this time I try to construct it as
$$
G(R,z,R',z') = int_0^infty c_k , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

The idea now is to choose $c_k$ such that the integral over the parameterspace $(R',z')$ with Gauss-Theorem yields a result independent on $(R,z)$. I'm not sure though (as hinted above) if I need to consider in fact a full cylindrical geometry such that
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = fracdelta(R-R') delta(z-z') delta(phi-phi')R
$$

with physical meaning or if any Greensfunction in an arbitrary parameterspace will suffice i.e. choosing the following equation
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = delta(R-R') delta(z-z')
$$

so that $G$ now is dimensionless ($Rwidehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-2$ as does the RHS). If I try to construct it using the latter equation, then since $G$ is dimensionless the most simple ansatz (with powers of $k$) must be $c_k=ck$ ($k$ has dimension $L^-1$) again with $c$ a dimensionless constant.
The integral is actually calculatable by the formula
$$
int_0^infty e^-kz , J_mu(kR) , J_mu(kR') , rm dk = frac1pi sqrtRR' , Q_mu-frac12 left( fracz^2 + R^2 + R'^22RR' right)
$$

The additional $k$ in the integrand is obtained by deriving with respect to $z$. However things are getting rather complicated so I will stay with the integral to calculate the flux through the surface.
In a 2d co-ordinate system I will take $R'$ as x-coordinate and $z'$ as y.
The only way I could solve the Flux through the surfaces was to choose the boundary as the line (from $R'=0..infty$) at $z'=z+epsilon$ and $z'=z-epsilon$ parallel to the R' axis, and the line from $z'=z-epsilon$ to $z'=z+epsilon$ at $R'=0$ and $R'=infty$ respectively. Thus we need
$$
F_z' = - partial_z' G = -int_0^infty c k begincases -k quad &z'>z \ k quad &z'<z endcases bigg} , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

and the flux through the area at $z'=zpmepsilon$ is
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = int_0^infty rm dR' , left( F_z+epsilon - F_z-epsilon right)
$$

The integral over $R'$ gives a factor of $frac2k^2$ and thus
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk stackrelz-z'= 2cleft(1-fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2 + R^2right)
$$



The integral over the surface in positive $R'-$direction (from $z'=z-epsilon..z+epsilon$) needs
$$ F_R' - F_R'_0 = -int_R'_0^R' R'' partial_R'' frac1R'' partial_R'' G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \ = int_R'_0^R' partial_z'^2 G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \
= int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , partial_z'^2 e^-k , rm dk int_R'_0^R' R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' $$

and thus for $R'=infty$ and $R_0'=0$
$$
int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_R'(R,z,R',z') , rm dz' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ partial_z' e^-k right]_z'=z-epsilon^z'=z+epsilon , rm dk int_0^infty R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ -2k , e^-kepsilon right] , rm dk , frac1k^2 \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-kepsilon , rm dk \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c left( 1 - fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2+R^2 right).$$



Conversely the opposite part in negative $R'$-direction at $R'=0$ gives
$$-int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz'$$
and therefore after adding up all the parts we have
$$
int_A vecF cdot rm dvecA = 0
$$

implying this specific $G(R,z,R',z')$ being no Greens-function?










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$endgroup$




Has anyone an idea how to find the Green's function of the operator
$$
widehatmathcalO=-frac1R partial_z^2 - partial_R frac1R partial_R?
$$



UPDATE1: For my own record (and anyone else who is interested) here is what one may call a solution or the way how I found it. I was first looking for solutions of the homogenous equation using a separation ansatz $f_R(R)f_z(z)$. The general solution then found this way is
$$
G(R,z) = int_0^infty c_k , R , J_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

because it should be invariant as $zrightarrow -z$.
I'm not quite sure why one has to discard the second solution $Y_1$ as $R Y_1$ is finite at the origin. However it does not seem to yield the correct result as the integral over the surface after using Gauss theorem seems to give a zero result as the integrand is odd.



In analogy to the cylindrical laplacian whose Greens function $Gsim frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$ can be found as a linear combination $int_0^infty J_0left(kRright) e^-k , rm dk$ I expected to get the solution by plugging in $c_k=c$ where c is a dimensionless constant. Note that $widehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-3$ and therefore $$widehatcal O G = fracdelta(R)delta(varphi)delta(z)R$$ should be dimensionless when integrated over the entire volume. This implies that $G$ should be dimensionless too. Assuming $c_k$ does not depend on any other hidden parameters and $k$ has dimension $L^-1$ the only viable combination is $c_k=c$ being a dimensionless constant.



The solution of the integral then is $$G(R,z) = cleft(1-fracsqrtR^2+z^2right)$$. However as a Greens function should vanish at $infty$ this result can not be quite right, because it does vanish as $|z| rightarrow infty$, but not as $R rightarrow infty$. Discarding the first constant term (which is irrelevant for the PDE) gives the opposite discrepancy: It vanishes as $R rightarrow infty$, but not as $|z| rightarrow infty$. This combined with the fact, that $$int_V underbracewidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ depends on the precise integration region $(sim ln (zR))$ led me to conclusion that probably this operator does not have a Greens function. Does anyone know if there is an existence theorem to any arbitrary Operator? Has it something to do with a PDE of second order has to have dimension $L^-2$ ?? See below:



Since in my case I want to solve the equation $widehatcal OPsi(R,z) = omega_varphi(R,z)$ this is equivalent to solving $Rwidehatcal OPsi(R,z) = R,omega_varphi(R,z)$ and therefore I'm looking for a Greensfunction $G$ to the operator $Rwidehatcal O$ which has dimension $L^-2$ same as for the laplacian. Thus the Greensfunction $G(R,z)$ as the $frac1r$ solution to the laplacian has to have dimension $L^-1$. Following the argument similar to above I conclude $c_k=ck$ again with a dimensionless constant $c$ and therefore $$G(R,z)=fracc,R^2left(R^2+z^2right)^frac32$$. This function now indeed has all the properties it needs to have and in particular $$int_V underbraceRwidehatcal O G_equiv , rm div vecF , rm dV = int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA$$ is independent on the integration region!



By choosing the tube of radius $R>0$ from $z=-infty..infty$ I readily obtain $$int_A vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2pi int_-infty^infty R F_R(R,z) , rm dz = 8pi c stackrel!= 1$$ fixing $c$.



$F_R$ is determined by the equation $$frac1R partial_R R F_R = -Rpartial_R frac1R partial_R G = partial_z^2 G$$ i.e.
$$
RF_R(R,z) - R_0F_R(R_0,z) = int_R_0^R R' , partial_z^2 G(R',z) , rm dR' \
Longrightarrow qquad F_R(R,z) = frac3cR^3left(R^2 + z^2right)^frac52
$$
.



UPDATE2: In continuing I noticed that above function is not really good when it comes to finding an inhomogenous solution since that would need to be of the form
$$
Psi(R,z) = int_V rm dV' , Gleft(R,z,R',z'right) , R'omega_varphileft(R',z'right)
$$

but $G(R-R',z-z')$ from above is not a solution to the Operator $Rwidehatcal O$. :-(



$rm dV'$ is an appropriate Volume element (not nececarily the cylinder or??)



In which cases can this function be found just by replacing $R rightarrow R- R'$ and $z rightarrow z-z'$ ???



So I'm basically starting all over again and this time I try to construct it as
$$
G(R,z,R',z') = int_0^infty c_k , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

The idea now is to choose $c_k$ such that the integral over the parameterspace $(R',z')$ with Gauss-Theorem yields a result independent on $(R,z)$. I'm not sure though (as hinted above) if I need to consider in fact a full cylindrical geometry such that
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = fracdelta(R-R') delta(z-z') delta(phi-phi')R
$$

with physical meaning or if any Greensfunction in an arbitrary parameterspace will suffice i.e. choosing the following equation
$$
Rwidehatcal O , G = delta(R-R') delta(z-z')
$$

so that $G$ now is dimensionless ($Rwidehatcal O$ has dimension $L^-2$ as does the RHS). If I try to construct it using the latter equation, then since $G$ is dimensionless the most simple ansatz (with powers of $k$) must be $c_k=ck$ ($k$ has dimension $L^-1$) again with $c$ a dimensionless constant.
The integral is actually calculatable by the formula
$$
int_0^infty e^-kz , J_mu(kR) , J_mu(kR') , rm dk = frac1pi sqrtRR' , Q_mu-frac12 left( fracz^2 + R^2 + R'^22RR' right)
$$

The additional $k$ in the integrand is obtained by deriving with respect to $z$. However things are getting rather complicated so I will stay with the integral to calculate the flux through the surface.
In a 2d co-ordinate system I will take $R'$ as x-coordinate and $z'$ as y.
The only way I could solve the Flux through the surfaces was to choose the boundary as the line (from $R'=0..infty$) at $z'=z+epsilon$ and $z'=z-epsilon$ parallel to the R' axis, and the line from $z'=z-epsilon$ to $z'=z+epsilon$ at $R'=0$ and $R'=infty$ respectively. Thus we need
$$
F_z' = - partial_z' G = -int_0^infty c k begincases -k quad &z'>z \ k quad &z'<z endcases bigg} , RJ_1left(kRright) , R'J_1left(kR'right) , e^-k , rm dk
$$

and the flux through the area at $z'=zpmepsilon$ is
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = int_0^infty rm dR' , left( F_z+epsilon - F_z-epsilon right)
$$

The integral over $R'$ gives a factor of $frac2k^2$ and thus
$$
int_z'=zpmepsilon vecFcdot rm dvecA = 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-k , rm dk stackrelz-z'= 2cleft(1-fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2 + R^2right)
$$



The integral over the surface in positive $R'-$direction (from $z'=z-epsilon..z+epsilon$) needs
$$ F_R' - F_R'_0 = -int_R'_0^R' R'' partial_R'' frac1R'' partial_R'' G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \ = int_R'_0^R' partial_z'^2 G(R,z,R'',z') , rm dR'' \
= int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , partial_z'^2 e^-k , rm dk int_R'_0^R' R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' $$

and thus for $R'=infty$ and $R_0'=0$
$$
int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_R'(R,z,R',z') , rm dz' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ partial_z' e^-k right]_z'=z-epsilon^z'=z+epsilon , rm dk int_0^infty R''J_1left(kR''right) , rm dR'' \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' + int_0^infty ck , RJ_1left(kRright) , left[ -2k , e^-kepsilon right] , rm dk , frac1k^2 \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c int_0^infty RJ_1left(kRright) , e^-kepsilon , rm dk \
= int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz' - 2c left( 1 - fracepsilonsqrtepsilon^2+R^2 right).$$



Conversely the opposite part in negative $R'$-direction at $R'=0$ gives
$$-int_z-epsilon^z+epsilon F_0(R,z,0,z') , rm dz'$$
and therefore after adding up all the parts we have
$$
int_A vecF cdot rm dvecA = 0
$$

implying this specific $G(R,z,R',z')$ being no Greens-function?







pde differential-operators greens-function






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




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edited Apr 8 at 15:10







Diger

















asked Jun 2 '18 at 2:14









DigerDiger

1,8201514




1,8201514











  • $begingroup$
    What does the -3 on the left mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 2 '18 at 15:18










  • $begingroup$
    It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
    $endgroup$
    – Dylan
    Jun 3 '18 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:13











  • $begingroup$
    When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:20










  • $begingroup$
    However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:40

















  • $begingroup$
    What does the -3 on the left mean?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 2 '18 at 15:18










  • $begingroup$
    It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
    $endgroup$
    – Dylan
    Jun 3 '18 at 1:44










  • $begingroup$
    When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:13











  • $begingroup$
    When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:20










  • $begingroup$
    However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
    $endgroup$
    – Diger
    Jun 4 '18 at 0:40
















$begingroup$
What does the -3 on the left mean?
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 2 '18 at 15:18




$begingroup$
What does the -3 on the left mean?
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 2 '18 at 15:18












$begingroup$
It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
Jun 3 '18 at 1:44




$begingroup$
It means people dislike your questions. It would help to include more context, i.e your motivation, where this problem came from, and your attempts to solve it.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
Jun 3 '18 at 1:44












$begingroup$
When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:13





$begingroup$
When trying to solve the viscous equation $nabla p = - nabla times vecomega$ for cylindrical coordinates in a tube it arises in terms of an inhomogenous equation for the streamfunction $Psi$ and the inhomogeneity $omega_varphi$ which is known. The equation then sounds $widehatmathcalO Psi = omega_varphi$. Thus I need to find a Greens-function right? What I have so far is from using separation of Variables i.e. $G sim int_0^infty rm dk , e^-kz , R , J_1(kR) = fracsqrtR^2+z^2-zsqrtR^2+z^2$. But is this the Greens function up to normalization?
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:13













$begingroup$
When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:20




$begingroup$
When doing the completely analogous procedure for the cylindrical laplacian this would indeed give the Greens-function $G sim int_0^infty rm d k , e^-kz , J_0(kR) = frac1sqrtR^2 + z^2$
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:20












$begingroup$
However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:40





$begingroup$
However: Being a Greens-function implies that it should have poles somewhere (right?) which the function above doesn't have. It's series abobut z=0 is $1-fraczR + cal O(z^3)$ and about R=0 is $fracR^22z^2 + cal O(R^4)$. Also I expect the Greens function to solve $widehatmathcalOG = fracdelta (R) delta (varphi) delta(z) R$ such that $int_V rm d^3x , underbracewidehatmathcalOG_equiv rm div vecF = int_A rm dvecA cdot vecF = c$ where c is a constant.
$endgroup$
– Diger
Jun 4 '18 at 0:40











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