What's in a Noetherian $mathbbA$-Module Ephemeralization? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Scheme of finite type over a field $K$ v.s. $K$-schemeIdeals in the ring of gaussian integers of a given normReference request: principalization theoremCompatibility of two definitions of the projective class group of a group ringShowing that orders are integral over $mathbbZ$.finitely generated torsion module over $R[[T]]$Strong approximation and class number in the adelic settingRepresentation of $overlinemathbbQ$ in One DimensionPrüfer Groups and Product TopologiesAbsolute convergence of Fourier series of periodic adelic function

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What's in a Noetherian $mathbbA$-Module Ephemeralization?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Scheme of finite type over a field $K$ v.s. $K$-schemeIdeals in the ring of gaussian integers of a given normReference request: principalization theoremCompatibility of two definitions of the projective class group of a group ringShowing that orders are integral over $mathbbZ$.finitely generated torsion module over $R[[T]]$Strong approximation and class number in the adelic settingRepresentation of $overlinemathbbQ$ in One DimensionPrüfer Groups and Product TopologiesAbsolute convergence of Fourier series of periodic adelic function










3












$begingroup$


Just kidding, it's not Noetherian. And "Emphemeralization" implies it is a physical construct, or that if it is, due to knowledge heretofore unbeknownst but recently gained by visualization of black holes via really, really big polaroid pictures taken atop Mauna Kea, that one would not accept its intrinsic life span just as it is.



I changed the title of this page to attract attention - please let me know if this is a faux pas. And please share any insider knowledge on boundaries for attempted humor that is not not PC.



I will proceed to answer the questions below, at least to my satisfaction, and hopefully to the benefit of those who care about such things. As always, any critiques, advice, or recommendations are welcome, as I live in a vacuum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.



  1. Is there a (necessarily locally Noetherian) formulation of the Noether Normalization Lemma for (generally non-Noetherian) topologically finitely generated commutative algebras over the ring of adeles (those with a continuous scalar multiplication compatible with a commutative/continuous ring multiplication with 1 for a finitely generated module over the ring of adeles, where only closed ideals are considered so that quotients are Hausdorff)?

  2. Please share any references with which you are familiar that deal explicitly with $mathbbA$-schemes and/or topologically finitely generated commutative $mathbbA$-algebras.

Additional Context for Finitely Generated Commutative Topological $mathbbA$-Algebras:



Example. Let $S,colon!=fracmathbbA[x]langle x-arangle$ where $a=prodlimits_ple inftyp^r_pa_pinwidehatmathbbZtimesmathbbR$, $prodlimits_p<inftyp^r_pinmathbbS$ (supernatural numbers), $a_p$ is a unit for $pleinfty$, $p^inftymathbbZ_p,colon!=0$ and $infty^inftymathbbR,colon!=0$. Let $cong_rm t$ denote topological isomorphism (open bijective morphism of topological groups). We have $fracmathbbZ_pp^r_pmathbbZ_pcong_rm twidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$ where $widehatmathbbZ(p^r_p),colon!=fracmathbbZp^r_pmathbbZ$ if $r_p<infty$ and $widehatmathbbZ(p^infty),colon!=mathbbZ_p$. Also, $fracmathbbRinfty^r_inftymathbbRcong_rm tmathbbR(infty^r_infty)$ where $mathbbR(infty^r_infty),colon!=0$ if $r_infty<infty$ and $mathbbR(infty^infty),colon!=mathbbR$.



Case $r_infty=infty$ : $Scong_rm tprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$, a procyclic algebra (the $mathbbR$ "cancels").



Case $r_infty<infty$ : $S$ is a solenoid; that is, $Scong_rm tfracprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)timesmathbbRmathbbZ(boldsymbol1,1)$ is a $1$-dimensional compact connected abelian group.



For 2 or more indeterminates, finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras are products of finitely generated profinite algebras and finite-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori). By using some tricks, one finds that any real torus, any complex torus, any elliptic curve, and any abelian variety can be represented as a protorus, whence as a finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebra (by way of a category equivalence between finite-dimensional protori and finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras $mathbbA[x_1,dots,x_n]/langle f rangle$ where $langle frangle$ is free as an $mathbbA$-module).



So Questions 1 and 2 above are asking whether Noether normalization and nullstellensatz can be formulated in this setting of topological algebras. Among other things, the motivation is to introduce geometric insight into the study of protori and their duals, torsion-free abelian groups.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 8:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:50










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 9:03







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
    $endgroup$
    – reuns
    Apr 9 at 23:44
















3












$begingroup$


Just kidding, it's not Noetherian. And "Emphemeralization" implies it is a physical construct, or that if it is, due to knowledge heretofore unbeknownst but recently gained by visualization of black holes via really, really big polaroid pictures taken atop Mauna Kea, that one would not accept its intrinsic life span just as it is.



I changed the title of this page to attract attention - please let me know if this is a faux pas. And please share any insider knowledge on boundaries for attempted humor that is not not PC.



I will proceed to answer the questions below, at least to my satisfaction, and hopefully to the benefit of those who care about such things. As always, any critiques, advice, or recommendations are welcome, as I live in a vacuum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.



  1. Is there a (necessarily locally Noetherian) formulation of the Noether Normalization Lemma for (generally non-Noetherian) topologically finitely generated commutative algebras over the ring of adeles (those with a continuous scalar multiplication compatible with a commutative/continuous ring multiplication with 1 for a finitely generated module over the ring of adeles, where only closed ideals are considered so that quotients are Hausdorff)?

  2. Please share any references with which you are familiar that deal explicitly with $mathbbA$-schemes and/or topologically finitely generated commutative $mathbbA$-algebras.

Additional Context for Finitely Generated Commutative Topological $mathbbA$-Algebras:



Example. Let $S,colon!=fracmathbbA[x]langle x-arangle$ where $a=prodlimits_ple inftyp^r_pa_pinwidehatmathbbZtimesmathbbR$, $prodlimits_p<inftyp^r_pinmathbbS$ (supernatural numbers), $a_p$ is a unit for $pleinfty$, $p^inftymathbbZ_p,colon!=0$ and $infty^inftymathbbR,colon!=0$. Let $cong_rm t$ denote topological isomorphism (open bijective morphism of topological groups). We have $fracmathbbZ_pp^r_pmathbbZ_pcong_rm twidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$ where $widehatmathbbZ(p^r_p),colon!=fracmathbbZp^r_pmathbbZ$ if $r_p<infty$ and $widehatmathbbZ(p^infty),colon!=mathbbZ_p$. Also, $fracmathbbRinfty^r_inftymathbbRcong_rm tmathbbR(infty^r_infty)$ where $mathbbR(infty^r_infty),colon!=0$ if $r_infty<infty$ and $mathbbR(infty^infty),colon!=mathbbR$.



Case $r_infty=infty$ : $Scong_rm tprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$, a procyclic algebra (the $mathbbR$ "cancels").



Case $r_infty<infty$ : $S$ is a solenoid; that is, $Scong_rm tfracprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)timesmathbbRmathbbZ(boldsymbol1,1)$ is a $1$-dimensional compact connected abelian group.



For 2 or more indeterminates, finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras are products of finitely generated profinite algebras and finite-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori). By using some tricks, one finds that any real torus, any complex torus, any elliptic curve, and any abelian variety can be represented as a protorus, whence as a finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebra (by way of a category equivalence between finite-dimensional protori and finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras $mathbbA[x_1,dots,x_n]/langle f rangle$ where $langle frangle$ is free as an $mathbbA$-module).



So Questions 1 and 2 above are asking whether Noether normalization and nullstellensatz can be formulated in this setting of topological algebras. Among other things, the motivation is to introduce geometric insight into the study of protori and their duals, torsion-free abelian groups.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 8:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:50










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 9:03







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
    $endgroup$
    – reuns
    Apr 9 at 23:44














3












3








3





$begingroup$


Just kidding, it's not Noetherian. And "Emphemeralization" implies it is a physical construct, or that if it is, due to knowledge heretofore unbeknownst but recently gained by visualization of black holes via really, really big polaroid pictures taken atop Mauna Kea, that one would not accept its intrinsic life span just as it is.



I changed the title of this page to attract attention - please let me know if this is a faux pas. And please share any insider knowledge on boundaries for attempted humor that is not not PC.



I will proceed to answer the questions below, at least to my satisfaction, and hopefully to the benefit of those who care about such things. As always, any critiques, advice, or recommendations are welcome, as I live in a vacuum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.



  1. Is there a (necessarily locally Noetherian) formulation of the Noether Normalization Lemma for (generally non-Noetherian) topologically finitely generated commutative algebras over the ring of adeles (those with a continuous scalar multiplication compatible with a commutative/continuous ring multiplication with 1 for a finitely generated module over the ring of adeles, where only closed ideals are considered so that quotients are Hausdorff)?

  2. Please share any references with which you are familiar that deal explicitly with $mathbbA$-schemes and/or topologically finitely generated commutative $mathbbA$-algebras.

Additional Context for Finitely Generated Commutative Topological $mathbbA$-Algebras:



Example. Let $S,colon!=fracmathbbA[x]langle x-arangle$ where $a=prodlimits_ple inftyp^r_pa_pinwidehatmathbbZtimesmathbbR$, $prodlimits_p<inftyp^r_pinmathbbS$ (supernatural numbers), $a_p$ is a unit for $pleinfty$, $p^inftymathbbZ_p,colon!=0$ and $infty^inftymathbbR,colon!=0$. Let $cong_rm t$ denote topological isomorphism (open bijective morphism of topological groups). We have $fracmathbbZ_pp^r_pmathbbZ_pcong_rm twidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$ where $widehatmathbbZ(p^r_p),colon!=fracmathbbZp^r_pmathbbZ$ if $r_p<infty$ and $widehatmathbbZ(p^infty),colon!=mathbbZ_p$. Also, $fracmathbbRinfty^r_inftymathbbRcong_rm tmathbbR(infty^r_infty)$ where $mathbbR(infty^r_infty),colon!=0$ if $r_infty<infty$ and $mathbbR(infty^infty),colon!=mathbbR$.



Case $r_infty=infty$ : $Scong_rm tprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$, a procyclic algebra (the $mathbbR$ "cancels").



Case $r_infty<infty$ : $S$ is a solenoid; that is, $Scong_rm tfracprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)timesmathbbRmathbbZ(boldsymbol1,1)$ is a $1$-dimensional compact connected abelian group.



For 2 or more indeterminates, finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras are products of finitely generated profinite algebras and finite-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori). By using some tricks, one finds that any real torus, any complex torus, any elliptic curve, and any abelian variety can be represented as a protorus, whence as a finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebra (by way of a category equivalence between finite-dimensional protori and finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras $mathbbA[x_1,dots,x_n]/langle f rangle$ where $langle frangle$ is free as an $mathbbA$-module).



So Questions 1 and 2 above are asking whether Noether normalization and nullstellensatz can be formulated in this setting of topological algebras. Among other things, the motivation is to introduce geometric insight into the study of protori and their duals, torsion-free abelian groups.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Just kidding, it's not Noetherian. And "Emphemeralization" implies it is a physical construct, or that if it is, due to knowledge heretofore unbeknownst but recently gained by visualization of black holes via really, really big polaroid pictures taken atop Mauna Kea, that one would not accept its intrinsic life span just as it is.



I changed the title of this page to attract attention - please let me know if this is a faux pas. And please share any insider knowledge on boundaries for attempted humor that is not not PC.



I will proceed to answer the questions below, at least to my satisfaction, and hopefully to the benefit of those who care about such things. As always, any critiques, advice, or recommendations are welcome, as I live in a vacuum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.



  1. Is there a (necessarily locally Noetherian) formulation of the Noether Normalization Lemma for (generally non-Noetherian) topologically finitely generated commutative algebras over the ring of adeles (those with a continuous scalar multiplication compatible with a commutative/continuous ring multiplication with 1 for a finitely generated module over the ring of adeles, where only closed ideals are considered so that quotients are Hausdorff)?

  2. Please share any references with which you are familiar that deal explicitly with $mathbbA$-schemes and/or topologically finitely generated commutative $mathbbA$-algebras.

Additional Context for Finitely Generated Commutative Topological $mathbbA$-Algebras:



Example. Let $S,colon!=fracmathbbA[x]langle x-arangle$ where $a=prodlimits_ple inftyp^r_pa_pinwidehatmathbbZtimesmathbbR$, $prodlimits_p<inftyp^r_pinmathbbS$ (supernatural numbers), $a_p$ is a unit for $pleinfty$, $p^inftymathbbZ_p,colon!=0$ and $infty^inftymathbbR,colon!=0$. Let $cong_rm t$ denote topological isomorphism (open bijective morphism of topological groups). We have $fracmathbbZ_pp^r_pmathbbZ_pcong_rm twidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$ where $widehatmathbbZ(p^r_p),colon!=fracmathbbZp^r_pmathbbZ$ if $r_p<infty$ and $widehatmathbbZ(p^infty),colon!=mathbbZ_p$. Also, $fracmathbbRinfty^r_inftymathbbRcong_rm tmathbbR(infty^r_infty)$ where $mathbbR(infty^r_infty),colon!=0$ if $r_infty<infty$ and $mathbbR(infty^infty),colon!=mathbbR$.



Case $r_infty=infty$ : $Scong_rm tprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)$, a procyclic algebra (the $mathbbR$ "cancels").



Case $r_infty<infty$ : $S$ is a solenoid; that is, $Scong_rm tfracprodlimits_p<inftywidehatmathbbZ(p^r_p)timesmathbbRmathbbZ(boldsymbol1,1)$ is a $1$-dimensional compact connected abelian group.



For 2 or more indeterminates, finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras are products of finitely generated profinite algebras and finite-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori). By using some tricks, one finds that any real torus, any complex torus, any elliptic curve, and any abelian variety can be represented as a protorus, whence as a finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebra (by way of a category equivalence between finite-dimensional protori and finitely generated commutative topological $mathbbA$-algebras $mathbbA[x_1,dots,x_n]/langle f rangle$ where $langle frangle$ is free as an $mathbbA$-module).



So Questions 1 and 2 above are asking whether Noether normalization and nullstellensatz can be formulated in this setting of topological algebras. Among other things, the motivation is to introduce geometric insight into the study of protori and their duals, torsion-free abelian groups.







algebraic-number-theory schemes algebras adeles






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 12 at 12:59







Wayne

















asked Apr 6 at 5:08









WayneWayne

371113




371113







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 8:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:50










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 9:03







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
    $endgroup$
    – reuns
    Apr 9 at 23:44













  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:39










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 8:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Youcis
    Apr 8 at 8:50










  • $begingroup$
    Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
    $endgroup$
    – Wayne
    Apr 8 at 9:03







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
    $endgroup$
    – reuns
    Apr 9 at 23:44








1




1




$begingroup$
Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
$endgroup$
– Alex Youcis
Apr 8 at 8:39




$begingroup$
Are you sure that you don't actually have that your scheme is the base change from $mathbbQ$ of some scheme? Can you give more context?
$endgroup$
– Alex Youcis
Apr 8 at 8:39












$begingroup$
Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
$endgroup$
– Wayne
Apr 8 at 8:47




$begingroup$
Alex, I do not have any scheme in mind other than what one would naturally consider in the usual order of introducing the concepts of Spec, affine scheme, scheme, etc., but in the context of the appropriate spectra (definition to be determined; e.g., closed prime ideals only?) to facilitate Noether normalization and Hilbert nullstellensatz in the setting of finitely generate topological algebras over the ring of adeles. Full disclosure - I am very weak in scheme theory. Thank you for your question.
$endgroup$
– Wayne
Apr 8 at 8:47




2




2




$begingroup$
The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
$endgroup$
– Alex Youcis
Apr 8 at 8:50




$begingroup$
The reason I bring this up is almost always when I consider $mathbbA$ in the context of schemes it's something like the points $X(mathbbA)$ for some $mathbbQ$-scheme $X$. In this case you can use Noether normalization for $X$ over $mathbbQ$.
$endgroup$
– Alex Youcis
Apr 8 at 8:50












$begingroup$
Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
$endgroup$
– Wayne
Apr 8 at 9:03





$begingroup$
Alex, I am thinking more naively than you. You assume machinery is in place that I do not. I am starting from ground zero, attempting to first find or articulate a form of Noether normalization for $mathbbA[x_1,...,x_n]/<f>$ for irreducible $f$ for which $<f>$ is a closed ideal, so that the quotient is a finitely generated commutative topological algebra (normally at this stage one does not consider a topology on the intervening commutative algebras, but I am stipulating this).
$endgroup$
– Wayne
Apr 8 at 9:03





1




1




$begingroup$
I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
$endgroup$
– reuns
Apr 9 at 23:44





$begingroup$
I would look at $BbbZ_p[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_p^k,p^k)$ and $widehatBbbZ[X]/I=varprojlim BbbZ[X]/(I_n,n)$ where $I_n$ is the ideal generated by the reduction $bmod n$ of the generators of $I$ and $X = x_1,ldots,x_n$. What is the condition on $I$ for $x_i,x_j$ being algebraically dependent or independent $bmod$ every $n$, what happens in the intermediate case ?
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– reuns
Apr 9 at 23:44











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A couple days of introspection revealed that the objects I was attempting to describe in the original post are topologically isomorphic to $fracmathbbA_mathbbZ^mbigopluslimits_i=1^mwidehatmathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i$ for some $boldsymbolx_i,boldsymboly_iinmathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ satisfying $overlinebigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbA_mathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i=mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$. (Randomly selecting free $mathbbA_mathbbZ$-modules and free $mathbbZ$-modules to topologically generate $mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ would have a success rate comparable to obtaining an abelian variety by randomly selecting a lattice in $mathbbC^m$ to form a complex torus...hmm...I wonder if a form of Riemann bilinear relations might be derived for this setting...).



Because the realization determined above for the $mathbbA$-objects in question articulates a bijective correspondence with $m$-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori), an application of the Structure Theorem for Protori allows us to conclude that an $m$-dimensional protorus $G$ has a free resolution $mathbbQDelta + Xhookrightarrow mathbbA^m twoheadrightarrow G$, where $DeltasubsetmathbbA^m$ is a torsion-free profinite abelian group with non-Archimedean dimension $m$ and $XsubsetmathbbA^m$ is algebraically isomorphic to the Pontryagin dual of $G$. The $boldsymbolx_i$ above determine the isogeny class of $Delta$ and the $boldsymboly_i$ above prescribe an adjunction between the non-Archimedean and Archimedean "halves" of the topological group $G$.



When I determine how to explicitly and intuitively describe a geometric formulation of these objects, I will append it here.
It would be very helpful for a practitioner of arithmetic algebraic geometry to write out in words how to describe these objects in modern mathematical parlance.






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    $begingroup$

    A couple days of introspection revealed that the objects I was attempting to describe in the original post are topologically isomorphic to $fracmathbbA_mathbbZ^mbigopluslimits_i=1^mwidehatmathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i$ for some $boldsymbolx_i,boldsymboly_iinmathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ satisfying $overlinebigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbA_mathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i=mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$. (Randomly selecting free $mathbbA_mathbbZ$-modules and free $mathbbZ$-modules to topologically generate $mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ would have a success rate comparable to obtaining an abelian variety by randomly selecting a lattice in $mathbbC^m$ to form a complex torus...hmm...I wonder if a form of Riemann bilinear relations might be derived for this setting...).



    Because the realization determined above for the $mathbbA$-objects in question articulates a bijective correspondence with $m$-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori), an application of the Structure Theorem for Protori allows us to conclude that an $m$-dimensional protorus $G$ has a free resolution $mathbbQDelta + Xhookrightarrow mathbbA^m twoheadrightarrow G$, where $DeltasubsetmathbbA^m$ is a torsion-free profinite abelian group with non-Archimedean dimension $m$ and $XsubsetmathbbA^m$ is algebraically isomorphic to the Pontryagin dual of $G$. The $boldsymbolx_i$ above determine the isogeny class of $Delta$ and the $boldsymboly_i$ above prescribe an adjunction between the non-Archimedean and Archimedean "halves" of the topological group $G$.



    When I determine how to explicitly and intuitively describe a geometric formulation of these objects, I will append it here.
    It would be very helpful for a practitioner of arithmetic algebraic geometry to write out in words how to describe these objects in modern mathematical parlance.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      A couple days of introspection revealed that the objects I was attempting to describe in the original post are topologically isomorphic to $fracmathbbA_mathbbZ^mbigopluslimits_i=1^mwidehatmathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i$ for some $boldsymbolx_i,boldsymboly_iinmathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ satisfying $overlinebigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbA_mathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i=mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$. (Randomly selecting free $mathbbA_mathbbZ$-modules and free $mathbbZ$-modules to topologically generate $mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ would have a success rate comparable to obtaining an abelian variety by randomly selecting a lattice in $mathbbC^m$ to form a complex torus...hmm...I wonder if a form of Riemann bilinear relations might be derived for this setting...).



      Because the realization determined above for the $mathbbA$-objects in question articulates a bijective correspondence with $m$-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori), an application of the Structure Theorem for Protori allows us to conclude that an $m$-dimensional protorus $G$ has a free resolution $mathbbQDelta + Xhookrightarrow mathbbA^m twoheadrightarrow G$, where $DeltasubsetmathbbA^m$ is a torsion-free profinite abelian group with non-Archimedean dimension $m$ and $XsubsetmathbbA^m$ is algebraically isomorphic to the Pontryagin dual of $G$. The $boldsymbolx_i$ above determine the isogeny class of $Delta$ and the $boldsymboly_i$ above prescribe an adjunction between the non-Archimedean and Archimedean "halves" of the topological group $G$.



      When I determine how to explicitly and intuitively describe a geometric formulation of these objects, I will append it here.
      It would be very helpful for a practitioner of arithmetic algebraic geometry to write out in words how to describe these objects in modern mathematical parlance.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        A couple days of introspection revealed that the objects I was attempting to describe in the original post are topologically isomorphic to $fracmathbbA_mathbbZ^mbigopluslimits_i=1^mwidehatmathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i$ for some $boldsymbolx_i,boldsymboly_iinmathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ satisfying $overlinebigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbA_mathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i=mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$. (Randomly selecting free $mathbbA_mathbbZ$-modules and free $mathbbZ$-modules to topologically generate $mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ would have a success rate comparable to obtaining an abelian variety by randomly selecting a lattice in $mathbbC^m$ to form a complex torus...hmm...I wonder if a form of Riemann bilinear relations might be derived for this setting...).



        Because the realization determined above for the $mathbbA$-objects in question articulates a bijective correspondence with $m$-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori), an application of the Structure Theorem for Protori allows us to conclude that an $m$-dimensional protorus $G$ has a free resolution $mathbbQDelta + Xhookrightarrow mathbbA^m twoheadrightarrow G$, where $DeltasubsetmathbbA^m$ is a torsion-free profinite abelian group with non-Archimedean dimension $m$ and $XsubsetmathbbA^m$ is algebraically isomorphic to the Pontryagin dual of $G$. The $boldsymbolx_i$ above determine the isogeny class of $Delta$ and the $boldsymboly_i$ above prescribe an adjunction between the non-Archimedean and Archimedean "halves" of the topological group $G$.



        When I determine how to explicitly and intuitively describe a geometric formulation of these objects, I will append it here.
        It would be very helpful for a practitioner of arithmetic algebraic geometry to write out in words how to describe these objects in modern mathematical parlance.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        A couple days of introspection revealed that the objects I was attempting to describe in the original post are topologically isomorphic to $fracmathbbA_mathbbZ^mbigopluslimits_i=1^mwidehatmathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i$ for some $boldsymbolx_i,boldsymboly_iinmathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ satisfying $overlinebigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbA_mathbbZboldsymbolx_i+bigopluslimits_i=1^mmathbbZboldsymboly_i=mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$. (Randomly selecting free $mathbbA_mathbbZ$-modules and free $mathbbZ$-modules to topologically generate $mathbbA_mathbbZ^m$ would have a success rate comparable to obtaining an abelian variety by randomly selecting a lattice in $mathbbC^m$ to form a complex torus...hmm...I wonder if a form of Riemann bilinear relations might be derived for this setting...).



        Because the realization determined above for the $mathbbA$-objects in question articulates a bijective correspondence with $m$-dimensional compact connected abelian groups (protori), an application of the Structure Theorem for Protori allows us to conclude that an $m$-dimensional protorus $G$ has a free resolution $mathbbQDelta + Xhookrightarrow mathbbA^m twoheadrightarrow G$, where $DeltasubsetmathbbA^m$ is a torsion-free profinite abelian group with non-Archimedean dimension $m$ and $XsubsetmathbbA^m$ is algebraically isomorphic to the Pontryagin dual of $G$. The $boldsymbolx_i$ above determine the isogeny class of $Delta$ and the $boldsymboly_i$ above prescribe an adjunction between the non-Archimedean and Archimedean "halves" of the topological group $G$.



        When I determine how to explicitly and intuitively describe a geometric formulation of these objects, I will append it here.
        It would be very helpful for a practitioner of arithmetic algebraic geometry to write out in words how to describe these objects in modern mathematical parlance.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Apr 12 at 13:08

























        answered Apr 11 at 5:51









        WayneWayne

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